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	<title>Comments for Magakpa's Weblog</title>
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	<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress.com weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by Julia Grace</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Greg</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome Nalandabodhi Mahayana students! by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/welcome-nalandabodhi-mahayana-students/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-19</guid>
		<description>write the bushman... tell him what you really think about the tibet issue...   comments@whitehouse.gov</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>write the bushman&#8230; tell him what you really think about the tibet issue&#8230;   <a href="mailto:comments@whitehouse.gov">comments@whitehouse.gov</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-18</guid>
		<description>also.. please write pres bush and let him know your feelings about tibet:   comments@whitehouse.gov</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also.. please write pres bush and let him know your feelings about tibet:   <a href="mailto:comments@whitehouse.gov">comments@whitehouse.gov</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-17</guid>
		<description>just info for everyone who reads this wonderful blog     karmapavisit.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just info for everyone who reads this wonderful blog     karmapavisit.org</p>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-16</guid>
		<description>i think you can meet your enemy again in the human realm. there is no difference between friends and enemies...they are in constant flux...so yes.. you meet friends and enemies in your next life...  greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think you can meet your enemy again in the human realm. there is no difference between friends and enemies&#8230;they are in constant flux&#8230;so yes.. you meet friends and enemies in your next life&#8230;  greg</p>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by Elizabeth Kresch</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Kresch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-15</guid>
		<description>I like to think of that sort of connection as a "teacher" experience.  If someone rubs me the wrong way- they are offering illumination on something that needs attention in my life or my own existence.  It is a challenge, just as joyous connections can have their own challenges.   I do feel that there is a sense of "karmic connection"- but the idea of a difficult connection being a teacher right now in this moment is much more workable for me.  I can easily trip out on weaving stories of "karmic connections!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to think of that sort of connection as a &#8220;teacher&#8221; experience.  If someone rubs me the wrong way- they are offering illumination on something that needs attention in my life or my own existence.  It is a challenge, just as joyous connections can have their own challenges.   I do feel that there is a sense of &#8220;karmic connection&#8221;- but the idea of a difficult connection being a teacher right now in this moment is much more workable for me.  I can easily trip out on weaving stories of &#8220;karmic connections!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Karmic Connections by susan sinisi</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/karmic-connections/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>susan sinisi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-14</guid>
		<description>I think people who cause us extreme emotions have serious unfinished Karmic connections with us. We should try to deal with them or they will keep coming back, maybe not in this life but they will be back to bug us. We are also lucky to have Karmic connections with people who support us.I like to think that we have traveled together before and they may have been our enemy. 
We are always told that everyone may have been our mother but everyone may have been our worst enemy and our best friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people who cause us extreme emotions have serious unfinished Karmic connections with us. We should try to deal with them or they will keep coming back, maybe not in this life but they will be back to bug us. We are also lucky to have Karmic connections with people who support us.I like to think that we have traveled together before and they may have been our enemy.<br />
We are always told that everyone may have been our mother but everyone may have been our worst enemy and our best friend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome Nalandabodhi Mahayana students! by Julia</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/welcome-nalandabodhi-mahayana-students/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-13</guid>
		<description>The anecdote about the three travelers in the desert was told by Jay Garfield up at Columbia. He was presenting a paper he's written called Taking the Conventional Truth Seriously. Since the class Tuesday, which I'm leading, is on the Two Truths, I'll spend a minute to talk about this before describing the story in terms of the 3 Natures.
Jay's point is that Ultimate Truth is the easy. Ultimate Truth == Emptiness. It's Conventional Truth that's difficult. He says there's a team of international philosophers of which he's one working on the problem currently of 'What is the Conventional Truth'. The Conventional Truth is difficult because (1)It's the only truth we have. (2) there can be a false conventional truth or a true conventional truth. A person who mistakes a rope for a snake has a false read on relative reality, for instance. (3) Ultimate Truth is dependent on Relative Truth. This is because Ultimate Truth doesn't exist independently of Relative Truth. So, Emptiness is another dependently arising cause and condition. This is the 'emptiness of emptiness'. Otherwise, Emptiness would exist as a solid THING/Object. One way of putting this would be to say that Ultimate Reality is really only conventionally real. (Not very sexy, but really interesting to think about.)

This is the story: Three travelers are going down a road in the desert. One is an experienced desert explorer. One is a novice. A third is wearing polarized sunglasses. The novice sees water in the road ahead and thinks it's real. The experienced traveler instantly recognizes this as a mirage. The person wearing polarized sunglasses doesn't see any water.

One of Jay's points is that the person who doesn't see any water would not be the wise, enlightened being. An enlightened person SEES relative reality, but recognizes it as not inherently real. So, the person with the sunglasses is just a consumer idiot with expensive sunglasses -- totally out of it. The novice is "us" with our ordinary dualistic consciousness perceiving our conventional world. It's the person who sees both who is the wise one here.

Remember the definition of consciousness is: that which is aware of objects. 

Therefore, Consciousness is inherently dualistic.

Mind Only philosophy was developed by Vasubandu as a further refinement of Madhyamaka philosophy to specifically address this dualistic polarity between what is perceived as an objective world 'out there' and the subjective mind or consciousness perceiving it. According to this description, all things have three natures which co-exist. 

In the story, the 'mirage' is the Imaginary Nature. Now, all things/objects perceived 'out there' as independly existing, real things are 'mirages' or 'hallucinations' but the fact that it's a real 'mirage' makes this clearer. The Dependent Nature refers to the fact that the appearance is dependent upon a subjective consciousness perceiving it. The True Nature, or as Jay puts it, the Consumate Nature, is the actual non-existence of this duality described by Vasubandu in positive terms, i.e. the nonreality of duality REALLY EXISTS!!! These apparent things which mascarade as independent phenomena, this nonexistence of apparent reality, is the Consumate or True Nature that all phenomena have.

In our little story, on the subjective side, the one who is fully accomplished intellectually and meditatively -- and recognizes the false aspect of relative reality (our experienced desert traveler) represents the subjective aspect of the True Nature and the True Nature on the objective side is the (mirage) which has been thoroughly analyzed and understood.

Nagarjuna's (negative) definition of Emptiness: Emptiness == lack of essence
Vaubandu's (positive) definition of Emptiness: Emptiness == lack of subject/object duality, and this REALLY EXISTS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The anecdote about the three travelers in the desert was told by Jay Garfield up at Columbia. He was presenting a paper he&#8217;s written called Taking the Conventional Truth Seriously. Since the class Tuesday, which I&#8217;m leading, is on the Two Truths, I&#8217;ll spend a minute to talk about this before describing the story in terms of the 3 Natures.<br />
Jay&#8217;s point is that Ultimate Truth is the easy. Ultimate Truth == Emptiness. It&#8217;s Conventional Truth that&#8217;s difficult. He says there&#8217;s a team of international philosophers of which he&#8217;s one working on the problem currently of &#8216;What is the Conventional Truth&#8217;. The Conventional Truth is difficult because (1)It&#8217;s the only truth we have. (2) there can be a false conventional truth or a true conventional truth. A person who mistakes a rope for a snake has a false read on relative reality, for instance. (3) Ultimate Truth is dependent on Relative Truth. This is because Ultimate Truth doesn&#8217;t exist independently of Relative Truth. So, Emptiness is another dependently arising cause and condition. This is the &#8216;emptiness of emptiness&#8217;. Otherwise, Emptiness would exist as a solid THING/Object. One way of putting this would be to say that Ultimate Reality is really only conventionally real. (Not very sexy, but really interesting to think about.)</p>
<p>This is the story: Three travelers are going down a road in the desert. One is an experienced desert explorer. One is a novice. A third is wearing polarized sunglasses. The novice sees water in the road ahead and thinks it&#8217;s real. The experienced traveler instantly recognizes this as a mirage. The person wearing polarized sunglasses doesn&#8217;t see any water.</p>
<p>One of Jay&#8217;s points is that the person who doesn&#8217;t see any water would not be the wise, enlightened being. An enlightened person SEES relative reality, but recognizes it as not inherently real. So, the person with the sunglasses is just a consumer idiot with expensive sunglasses &#8212; totally out of it. The novice is &#8220;us&#8221; with our ordinary dualistic consciousness perceiving our conventional world. It&#8217;s the person who sees both who is the wise one here.</p>
<p>Remember the definition of consciousness is: that which is aware of objects. </p>
<p>Therefore, Consciousness is inherently dualistic.</p>
<p>Mind Only philosophy was developed by Vasubandu as a further refinement of Madhyamaka philosophy to specifically address this dualistic polarity between what is perceived as an objective world &#8216;out there&#8217; and the subjective mind or consciousness perceiving it. According to this description, all things have three natures which co-exist. </p>
<p>In the story, the &#8216;mirage&#8217; is the Imaginary Nature. Now, all things/objects perceived &#8216;out there&#8217; as independly existing, real things are &#8216;mirages&#8217; or &#8216;hallucinations&#8217; but the fact that it&#8217;s a real &#8216;mirage&#8217; makes this clearer. The Dependent Nature refers to the fact that the appearance is dependent upon a subjective consciousness perceiving it. The True Nature, or as Jay puts it, the Consumate Nature, is the actual non-existence of this duality described by Vasubandu in positive terms, i.e. the nonreality of duality REALLY EXISTS!!! These apparent things which mascarade as independent phenomena, this nonexistence of apparent reality, is the Consumate or True Nature that all phenomena have.</p>
<p>In our little story, on the subjective side, the one who is fully accomplished intellectually and meditatively &#8212; and recognizes the false aspect of relative reality (our experienced desert traveler) represents the subjective aspect of the True Nature and the True Nature on the objective side is the (mirage) which has been thoroughly analyzed and understood.</p>
<p>Nagarjuna&#8217;s (negative) definition of Emptiness: Emptiness == lack of essence<br />
Vaubandu&#8217;s (positive) definition of Emptiness: Emptiness == lack of subject/object duality, and this REALLY EXISTS.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome Nalandabodhi Mahayana students! by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/welcome-nalandabodhi-mahayana-students/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-12</guid>
		<description>julia..susan and i and the rest of our class were wondering if you could repeat the story about the 3 people in the desert and how that relates to the 3 natures..?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>julia..susan and i and the rest of our class were wondering if you could repeat the story about the 3 people in the desert and how that relates to the 3 natures..?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome Nalandabodhi Mahayana students! by greg potter</title>
		<link>http://magakpa.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/welcome-nalandabodhi-mahayana-students/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>greg potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://magakpa.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-11</guid>
		<description>thanks julia.. this helps... i will get to some serious reading tomorrow..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks julia.. this helps&#8230; i will get to some serious reading tomorrow..</p>
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